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- NASA — Experience the Equinox
- National Weather Service — The Seasons (Equinoxes and Solstices) Page
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Thanks, Celtblood. I used the weather example to reinforce my point, which just confused it.I'll try to explain my thoughts on it.
On Mar.20st the days and nights are equal and continue to get longer until June. In my opinion, all else aside, June marks the end of the season because the days begin to become shorter, the beginning of Autumn. In Sept, again, days are equal and continue until the end of Winter in December. In Dec the days begin getting longer, at last, the start of Spring, in March which of course will lead to Summer. I'm sure that most have a differing opinions. But just because everyone calls it Spring doesn't change the logic. Have a great Summer. Peace
Indeed it is so; just as when in June the news commentators wax poetically upon the start of Summer, I pine; technically it is the beginning of Winter, as the days start getting shorter from the Solstice on. Then again, at the Winter Solstice, when everyone is grey and downtrodden, I rejoice as the days creep longer toward Summer!
Oh spring, where are you? The calendar says only eight more days, but with three feet of snow on the ground and more falling, I think you won't get here until June.
The idea that the vernal equinox is the first day of Spring is nonsense. If it were so, common expressions like 'Spring has come early' and 'it's a late Spring this year' would have no meaning since the equinox does not move about. The concept of Spring has nothing to do with the vernal equinox or any other astrological events. It is the opposite of Fall. It is when flowers spring forth and leaves open after Winter - ' For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land', Song of Solomon, 2:11-12.
In the Norther Hemisphere, the conventional period of Spring is the Months of March, April and May, after which comes Summer.
Vernal Equinox is the first day of Spring based on astronomical data. The same applies to other astronomical seasons, it may not feel at all like Spring, but the position of the Sun and the Earth dictate the astronomical time frame, not the weather conditions in a particular area. If we went by how the temperatures feel and what the weather conditions are, there would be no rhyme nor reason to calculating the seasons. It might be Spring in one state and Winter in the next, while further South it might already be Summer.
I can only repeat that the idea of Spring and when it begins has nothing to do with the Vernal Equinox but has to do with the renewal of life on Earth for both flora and fauna, The *Vernal* Equinox takes its name from Spring in the commonly accepted sense, not the reverse. ('Vernal' means Spring.) It happens *in" the Spring, not at its beginning. The same is true of the Summer Solstice, which is on 'Mid-Summer Day' - ie in the midst of Summer, not its beginning. And, of course, Summer in the Northern hemisphere is Winter in the Southern, whatever name is given to the solstice. This obsession with astronomical definitions of the seasons is a modern dogma. I would rather call it *astrological* because of its connections with supposedly ancient rituals like those at Stonehenge (and even more in Celtic lands), most of which originated in the Nineteenth Century as part of the Romantic Movement in literature, art and music. There is certainly no science in it, only scientism, which we should be better off without.
You are exactly correct regarding the Summer Solstice, and are apparently one of the few who really "gets" that it falls in the middle of Summer, and is not by any means when Summer "starts". (Even this site has yet to get it right, and they should be the ones to show all the other almanacs what is right, all things considered.)
As in the case of the Vernal Equinox, and considering the fact that those of us in the 21st century have, to a very large degree, completely lost touch with our agrarian roots and often misunderstand or misinterpret the seasonal cycles, many tend to confuse the Solstices with the start of the seasons. Actually, the Solstices mark the middle or high point (Summer) and low point (Winter) of light and darkness. WS is the shortest point of daylight hours in the year and SS is the point of longest light, the apex of the Summer season, which actually begins on the first of May, just as Winter begins on the first of November.
As in the case of the Vernal Equinox, these are dates are based on the astronomical movements of the Earth and planets, so the weather may not seem in accordance with the true beginning of the season. I agree with you in that the Vernal Equinox may yet be cold and snowy, or even icy, and that it may not feel like Spring until up in April.
The astronomical model offers us a well regulated system by which to mark the seasonal changes, while the local weather patterns bring the seasons home at different times for different places.
I'm really not sure about where you get the notion that astronomy is not scientific, or that the ancients did not observe the astronomical Solstice (if you read up on it, Stonehenge serves as a calendar of sorts, and is amazingly accurate at marking the Summer Solstice due to its' design).
Alas, everyone has an opinion, and you are more than welcome to follow your own.
We may have lost touch with our agrarian roots but I don't think we have stopped noticing when flowers and leaves start appearing, birds start nesting, and many other signs of the beginning of Spring in the normal human sense. And we still talk about Spring being early or late, so we can't be thinking about the Vernal Equinox when we say it.
I did not say that Astronomy was not a science, which it plainly is. But Astrology is certainly not a science (even if some think it is), and as you may see from other posts (including some of your own), the cycle of the seasons is commonly associated with astrological interpretations of astronomical events. That is not science, it is scientism - the pretense of a scientific basis for such interpretations.
Actually, that was my point, in that one can only look to the astronomical designations for these seasonal cycles, since the blooming of leaves and flowers and the nesting of birds occurs at so many different times, in so many different places. To clarify, I understand your point regarding the observable manifestation of the seasons, I was just saying the astronomical points remain the accurate measure of those seasons.
The same applies to the modern tendency to think of the Summer Solstice as the "beginning" of the Summer season. Most modern calendars, and even most TV meteorologists, will say 21 June, for example, is when Summer starts. As we have both stated, this is dead wrong. The Summer cannot start when the Sun and the seasonal tides begin to wane, it's a contradiction. We'd may as well say Christmas starts on Christmas night and not on Christmas morning. At least on that point, it seems we are both in absolute agreement.
I would also have to argue that astrology does indeed have its' scientific elements, especially considering the fact that our modern astronomy developed from the old science of astrology, same as our modern pharmacology developed from the old practises of herbal healing, and metallurgy developed from alchemy. There was a time when these practises went hand in hand, and were one in the same. Since astrology is based on the astronomical positions of the planets and their movements, I would call that a scientific element, even if it's only based on the observation of the movements. The interpretation of those movements and their alleged effect on us are, admittedly, debatable and not reliable science in the modern sense, but charting horoscopes by calculating the correct positions of the stars and planets, I would think, is indeed an effort founded in science.
Of course, that's just my opinion, I really don't mean to be argumentative.
You miss the point entirely. Spring is *defined* as the season when flowers and leaves (re)appear, birds nest, etc. That is what Spring means. And, yes, it starts at different times in different places and in different years. For that reason the start of Spring can not be fixed by any astronomical event such as the vernal equinox, which will occur *at some time* in Spring, just as the Summer Solstice occurs at some time in Summer. That is how human beings relate to the world around them. Most know nothing about equinoxes or solstices, though no doubt they pick up references to them in their diaries, newspapers and other media and regard them in much the same way as their "star signs" and other astrological nonsense.
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